Author Topic: Several questions  (Read 18389 times)

PipapoTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Several questions
« on: November 30, 2013, 01:25:52 AM »
Hi, I have several questions about CSP, but I'm not sure if I can explain it well so I'll put screenshots...Thank you for your help !

First of all, I would like to know if you can create a new sub-tool group, you know like one of these :

I have the impression it's not possible but perhaps yes?


Secondly, I don't know if I'm stupid or not but I just can't find a way to make colors work on an image I saved as material (??). I'm not sure if I'm clear, but when I make a brush , it stays black or in the color it had when I saved it as a material. However, some brushes from CSP can use a "line color" (a line with a color that can change...not really clear huh? XP ) and a "filled color" (? I have no idea how to call these, sorry   (´∏_∏`)   ), well just like these :




I used a red foreground color and a yellow background color.

The only brush I made that can change its color as I want is the square one. The others stays with the color they had when I saved them....I don't know/remember how I made the square brush and I can't figure out how it works (yes, I feel stupid)....I tried to copy the same values/settings the CSP brushes had but without success, and I'd like to know how to have a brush with a variable line color (??).
Also, if someone could explain me how to make a brush with a "variable filled color", I would gladly appreciate !
I hope you understand this mess (´^^`)


Thirdly, I wanted to know if there is a simple way to "translate" SAI brush values to CSP? I mean, is there a way to use SAI brush settings on CSP brushes...? There are lots of nice brushes using SAI settings and I'd like to have more or less the same ones on CSP, is it possible or the complicated-things/settings/values-that-make-the-brush-flow-this-way are too different between SAI and CSP?
I tried looking for some kind of recap charts or some kind of matching values between these two programs but nothing...

I hope you understand my questions and I thank you very much for your help !
Have a nice day !

hecartha

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Several questions
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 01:38:50 PM »
First of all, I would like to know if you can create a new sub-tool group, you know like one of these :

I have the impression it's not possible but perhaps yes?
Just drag and drop one of the tools to the tab bar like that (and you can later rename the category)

Secondly, I don't know if I'm stupid or not but I just can't find a way to make colors work on an image I saved as material (??). I'm not sure if I'm clear, but when I make a brush , it stays black or in the color it had when I saved it as a material. However, some brushes from CSP can use a "line color" (a line with a color that can change...not really clear huh? XP ) and a "filled color" (? I have no idea how to call these, sorry   (´∏_∏`)   ), well just like these :




I used a red foreground color and a yellow background color.

The only brush I made that can change its color as I want is the square one. The others stays with the color they had when I saved them....I don't know/remember how I made the square brush and I can't figure out how it works (yes, I feel stupid)....I tried to copy the same values/settings the CSP brushes had but without success, and I'd like to know how to have a brush with a variable line color (??).
Also, if someone could explain me how to make a brush with a "variable filled color", I would gladly appreciate !
I hope you understand this mess (´^^`)
I will paste here what I write on the official Manga Studio forum (which will be a better place for such question...if you want fast answer).
there is 3 kind of brush tip:
 1-Standard brush tip using one color with opacity variation
 2-Dual color brush tip using a grayscale from black to white and opacity variation. Once captured on gray layer, the black will be replaced by the main color of the tool or color palette and the white will be replaced by the sub color. And the combination of the two colors will be used depending on the amount of black or white (gray)

3-Colored brush tip using fixed colors that you will capture on any color layer.
 (of course, if you activate the "ink/mix ground color" option on your brush, the previous behavior will disappear-> no dual brush, no colored brush)

Here simple brushes showing the 3 kind of brush tip (I need something simple for the animated Gif)


Oh, and you can change easily your color layer to a gray layer with this panel when you need to capture a brush tip

Thirdly, I wanted to know if there is a simple way to "translate" SAI brush values to CSP? I mean, is there a way to use SAI brush settings on CSP brushes...? There are lots of nice brushes using SAI settings and I'd like to have more or less the same ones on CSP, is it possible or the complicated-things/settings/values-that-make-the-brush-flow-this-way are too different between SAI and CSP?
I tried looking for some kind of recap charts or some kind of matching values between these two programs but nothing...

I hope you understand my questions and I thank you very much for your help !
Have a nice day !
That depends on the brush. Bristle brush can be difficult but the others based on pattern are far easier. Did you have an example?

PipapoTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Several questions
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2013, 07:59:59 PM »
Oh mon Dieu, jamais je ne pourrais assez te remercier ! dès que j'ai lu ton post, je me suis sentie super c*nne!  :'(

Never would have I thought dragging the icon although it's the most logical thing to do and never would have I thought about using a grey layer ! I feel so stupid XP but thank you sir, your post was very informative and your gifs very interesting, thank you thank you thank you!

About my last question, I'll begin easily (but it'll get really complicated!). A pixiv user has made a post in which he shows the values to input in CSP for a Sai brush (in fact, it's about the pen (or pencil?), the blur and the marker brushes), it's in japanese but the images speak for all here :http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=28604146 (just click on the image, it will open a new window with the other ones)
But the values he shows are not the same at all. For CSP, he uses 50 for resaturation, 100 for density and 0 for extension. The default values in Sai are blending-50 ; dilution-0 and persistence- 80.



Sai  混色 literally means "mixed color" 水分量 water/humidity quantity 色延び  color application

In CSP, it would be 絵の具量 literally meaning "color quantity" (resaturation in english) 絵の具濃 color density  (density) 色延び color application (extension) respectively.

(btw, is there a  "keep opacity" button somewhere in CSP?)

Well here, you can think except persistence/extension  being the same thing, the rest isn't the same at all.  But 混色/mixed color is the color blend mode in CSP (color mix is a watercolor-like mode as in SAI right?). So, i thought that the values would be more or less the same in Sai or CSP.
However, I took the time to test these three settings so I could see if there were the same and well...
This site (in japanese) http://xxxcrescentxxx.sakura.ne.jp/how_to/brush/_1_brush_3_hude.html
shows how to use them with SAI. I made the same thing in a way MORE simple way in CSP : I haven't played with the density and opacity settings but it's worth it I guess...?
So I used the first watercolor brush in the list and I changed only the brush density and the opacity both lowered at 50. I also used the same colors.



(The neat images are from the site I gave above, and the numbers under are the values I put.

NB : for the resaturation setting (image in the bottom left-hand corner), I put a number given above but no values (well, 0) were put for the density and the extension settings. I did the same with the density setting (image in the upper left-hand corner).
As for the extension setting (image in the right), it was necessary to put values in the two other settings : I used for the resaturation and the density a value of 50.

The first noticeable thing is that 100 in SAI would generally correspond to 0 in CSP but there are other settings to consider which can't make it totally true.
So, if you consider only that, you can guess it would be easy to make a CSP brush out of SAI by putting the...opposite value?
It's getting really complicated I believe and I'm not even sure myself if I understand this well, but when I look at how the pixiv user made a SAI brush-like in CSP, I hoped it would be simple to make some kind of connection between the SAI and CSP values....
I'm totally confused with how CSP brush functions work and I find SAI less confusing on that point. But I really like CSP and I would like to be able to understand how these settings work.

Sorry if I made mistakes and thank you anyway for answering me before. If my last question is too difficult to answer, I can deal without, that color thing was already making me crazy XD

Thanks again and have a nice day !
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 06:22:29 PM by Pipapo »

hecartha

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Several questions
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 03:42:47 AM »
Oh mon Dieu, jamais je ne pourrais assez te remercier ! dès que j'ai lu ton post, je me suis sentie super c*nne!  :'(
C'est toujours bon pour l'ego de se sentir con/conne de temps en temps :D
About my last question,[...]
Well, it will be simpler for me to start from the ground with an important detail (at the bottom as your post doesn't concern Photoshop)

Clip Studio Paint just like many other applications allows to control the spacing which has an effect over the result you will get using the brush density or the density of paint (I am using the terms from the official English version here).

Clip Studio Paint has been designed in an attempt to do "everything the others are doing", that's why there is these boxes

They allow to emulate the kind of brush stroke you can get in Photoshop or Sai. For example, as Sai doesn't allow to change the spacing, its density setting is pretty consistent when compared to Photoshop's flow (10% density in Sai looks roughly like 10% opacity).
So, it is needed to activate the "adjust brush density by space" if you want to emulate Sai...BUT, everything isn't as easy because:

I am using "narrow" as space setting
You can see that if the result in CSP matches Sai for almost any value, it is different for the max value (100%) as it is needed to deactivate the previous box if you want a hard edged brush stroke at 100% opacity.

This problem is also visible when using the "density of paint" as the spacing or the "adjust brush density by space" setting change the amount of "density of paint" needed to match the Sai's result.


The following tables show the settings you need to match the kind of brush we have in Sai

However the "color stretch" setting seems to depend on the "amount of paint" setting which means one table is needed per "amount of paint" value.
With these tables, you can create simple brushes which will be very close in Sai and Clip Studio Paint like this one:


Now about Sai's marker brush...this one is impossible to emulate in Clip Studio Paint

This very specific behavior is impossible

Concerning the Sai's watercolor brush, it is possible to do something close enough
The easiest to achieve is the blur like this one



The size pressure curve need to match the blur pressure curve.
Adding more settings with brush texture allows to create this kind of brush also


The more advanced Sai's watercolor are possible also (the one with low pressure=blur, high pressure=paint)

The pressure curve for the "intensity of blur" and the "brush density" are the same default linear "curve"


You can increase the "color stretch" also to get something like that


Or a more realistic brush


Have a nice day :)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 12:30:48 PM by hecartha »

PipapoTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • View Profile
Re: Several questions
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 03:05:04 PM »
OH MON DIEU ! mais tu te rends compte de ce que tu viens d'écrire ? ! c'est l'équivalent d'une page ou plus d'un livre sacré pour moi ! t'as fait ça tout seul? mon Dieu, je t'admire là, chapeau bas, je me prosterne à tes pieds, j'aurais jamais cru que tu me répondrais avec autant d'efficacité ! j'aimerais pouvoir faire plus que te dire "merci" parce que là je suis juste ébahie par ton post ! Merci merci merci merci merci merci ! ! (sans compter les autres d'avant, c'est juste génial ! merci merci merci merci !)

There is just no words to express the enlightenment you've just provided me! this is just so damn helpful for me and it makes CSP even better! you should make a masterpost on a forum or on your blog because I think it's really interesting and incredible! (or you want me to change the title of this thread with an amazing "OMfgfevi'madumbgirl"?) It must have took you so long just for answering me, it must have been tough to make all these charts, I'm just totally impressed, you really know this software well ! 
And I don't count all this gifs you've put, you can't make it any more clear ! you can't understand how thrilled I was when I saw your post, I'm gonna enshrine it probably...  :D
You sir, are a genius. There's no other way to explain it ! (or perhaps I'm just totally stupid ⎝(´∓▽ ∓` )ゝ )

You've just made my day, it' my un-birthday today and it couldn't have been any better!
Thanks again and now all the thanks I know
Merci infiniment Thank you so much Muchas gracias Muito obrigada Grazie mille Gratias ago Danke shön شكرا جزيلا  Болъшое спасибо どうもありがとうございます 万分感谢  정말 고마워  !

Have a wonderful day !

ps: Oh also, your last  brush seems amazing, what brush tip did you use? you made it yourself? haaaaan I wish I could make these as good as yours...
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 03:08:28 PM by Pipapo »