Author Topic: CLIP STUDIO PAINT English Translation  (Read 1384552 times)

trevTopic starter

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #405 on: November 04, 2012, 10:41:56 PM »
Yea, CSP isn't suitable for print-ready work yet. It's only just got CMYK (embedding?) abilities (which I haven't figured out how to use and I've not translated that section yet.) It's here if you're interested: View > Color Profile > Preview Settings...

1. Yep, CSP doesn't save layered tiffs and neither did CELSYS' IllustStudio. But like digitoonie said, CSP EX will be released soon and that's geared towards print, page layout and book design. Maybe it will offer better support for tiffs?

2. True that the LZW is great for optimising storage space but once opened, whether it has compression or not, the files will take up the same amount of system RAM. If anything, LZW takes a little longer to open because the files need to be decompressed before they can be displayed.
Besides, when you send the files for print, they're stored into an Archive file?

3. We can only hope that they'll improve support for other format exports! :D

Galemod

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #406 on: November 04, 2012, 11:48:27 PM »
Damn.  I just did some more inking in CSP.  It's such a nice experience!  Having to grind through super-long load/save times is supremely frustrating.

I save my work every five minutes or so, alternating each save between one of two drives.  Long experience has taught me the wisdom of this practice and the pain of not following it, but having to sit through save times of up to thirty-five seconds in some cases for .psd layered versions, (just timed it) is crazy-annoying.  On my internal SSD I can get the same file to save in fifteen seconds, which is much better than my external spinner, but still not very good compared to Photoshop which can do the same thing in approximately five seconds. (Just timed that too).

Even CSPs native .lip format, while it has certain speed-up features, can still drag itself through the process taking up to 20 seconds to save a file.  On an SSD, no less.

Wait times may seem like a minor gripe, but honestly, it's like being flashed back to using the kind of ponderously slow hardware and resulting wait times we all had to grind our teeth through during the early 90's.

I think the way Photoshop did it was to develop really fast compression models to create small files which save fast.  CSP's compresson features are not robust, not particularly fast, and only accessible through the 'Export' command, (as far as I can make out.)

I wasn't aware they were planning to release a more pro-level version.  CSP EX sounds promising and I hope they put some focus on tightening up their basic file I/O, but it also sounds like having to re-purchase the whole suite again.

Ah well.  I guess that's just life and I'll get used to it.  It's good to have things to hope for in the future.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 01:04:55 AM by Galemod »

trevTopic starter

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #407 on: November 05, 2012, 01:38:34 AM »
CSP has an auto-backup feature, so that might be what's taking a long time.
Basically, if you overwrite an existing file, CSP will create a backup of it. So instead of writing 1x 300mb file, you're actually doing 2x 300mb!
On Windows, the location is "C:\My Documents\CELSYS\CLIPStudioPaintVer1_1_0\DocumentBackup\"

CSP also has a Scratch Disk feature like Photoshop which might slow things down if it's on a mechanical drive.

It might be worth experimenting with different save/swapfile locations.
I've set my Scratch Disk and "\My Documents\" to a 4x120GB SSD RAID0 array and my actual opening/saving of files goes to a 8x1TB RAID5 mechanical array. This way, when CSP is creating the backup or using the swap file, it won't slow down the save as they're both going to different locations.
Or maybe you could try to avoid overwriting existing files to bypass the auto-backup?

I've tried to manually make the "DocumentBackup" folder Read-Only, however CSP will unlock it and write to it regardless :)

Also, I really hope we can upgrade our PRO versions into the EX once it's released. I think EX is going to be priced at ~£170 or ~$270

digitoonie

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #408 on: November 05, 2012, 03:02:41 AM »
The upgrade is going to be a slightly cheaper if you already own CSP. ;)

One of the main features Celsys does work on is file size. Originally both their original .lip and .pngs were pretty large but they've gotten a good handle on it. They haven't said whether they're working on PSD sizes next.

I haven't had an issue with file sizes, and I usually work in big large sizes and resolution. In fact I got curious and saved an image as a psd via CSP then resaved in PS and the file size actually got larger with the resave. It never took forever to save.

Though I'm going to assume you do a lot of painting and use tons of layers. My stuff is pretty simple and I hate having a lot of layers so I'm constantly merging. If I'm painting it's usually done on one layer.

Galemod

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #409 on: November 05, 2012, 08:42:20 AM »
CSP has an auto-backup feature, so that might be what's taking a long time.
Basically, if you overwrite an existing file, CSP will create a backup of it. So instead of writing 1x 300mb file, you're actually doing 2x 300mb!
On Windows, the location is "C:\My Documents\CELSYS\CLIPStudioPaintVer1_1_0\DocumentBackup\"

CSP also has a Scratch Disk feature like Photoshop which might slow things down if it's on a mechanical drive.

It might be worth experimenting with different save/swapfile locations.
I've set my Scratch Disk and "\My Documents\" to a 4x120GB SSD RAID0 array and my actual opening/saving of files goes to a 8x1TB RAID5 mechanical array. This way, when CSP is creating the backup or using the swap file, it won't slow down the save as they're both going to different locations.
Or maybe you could try to avoid overwriting existing files to bypass the auto-backup?


Okay, I did some tinkering, and learned the following:

When I take a big page (5200 x 7700) and make only a couple of small changes to it, adding only a few new brush strokes (raster, not vector), it saves very quickly using the native .lip format.  However, when I do extensive additional brush work on the same file, the save time is much greater.  Interesting.

However. . , I also tried saving the same file again (again without about the same number of new brush strokes added to it) under a different file name and presto.  The save time was dramatically shorter.

Then I repeated various versions of this experiment, and. . , the save times dropped even more regardless of the file name.

On my final attempt, again adding a lot of new information to the page, and the save time dropped again to around 4 seconds saving to the same file name..!  That's a huge speed increase for no apparent reason.

Something definitely weird is going on.  I'm beginning to wonder if my SSD or even the OS might not be the culprit in some manner.  I'm really quite confused now.

I'm going to see if there have been any recent firmware updates to my SSD.  I'll report back if I learn anything new.

Galemod

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #410 on: November 05, 2012, 09:54:03 AM »
What do you know?

There WAS a new firmware update for my SSD.  I just finished installing it, and. . .

Well, not much has changed that I'm able to notice, (the firmware update is supposed to kill some bugs related to coming back from standby mode, which I have actually been using lately).

Aside from that, I think I might be getting a handle on CSP's odd personality.  There seems to be a lot of stuff going on under the hood wrt optimizing file saving routines when working in the .lip format.  I'm not altogether clear how all of that works, but swapping file names every now and then seems to have a semi-random positive effect.

In any case, I think I'm going to start saving my regular backups in that format while working on artwork and then make a final save in .tif format which auto-crunches everything down to a single layer where I need it at the end anyway.  For the screen tone work and final pre-press stuff, I think I'll probably use Photoshop where the selection tool is a great deal friendlier.  (You can switch back and forth between the regular lasso and polygonal selection on the fly using the ALT and CTRL keys in Photoshop).

It's not the most ideal arrangement, but I think the extra steps will be worth it in order to have access to CSP's awesome brush engine.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 09:55:35 AM by Galemod »

serial

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #411 on: November 05, 2012, 04:05:09 PM »
Is switching language just a matter of removing the translation files and rebooting the program? And if there's an update to CSP, do you guys set the language back to Japanese before updating it?

trevTopic starter

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #412 on: November 06, 2012, 10:13:58 PM »
I'm not altogether clear how all of that works, but swapping file names every now and then seems to have a semi-random positive effect.

When you overwrite an existing file (eg. with the same name) it will invoke CSP's auto-backup feature. That means it'll write 2 files when you save (instead of 1 - hence double the save times).

For the screen tone work and final pre-press stuff, I think I'll probably use Photoshop where the selection tool is a great deal friendlier.  (You can switch back and forth between the regular lasso and polygonal selection on the fly using the ALT and CTRL keys in Photoshop).

CSP has a verrrry robust Shortcut key system. You could set CSP to function the same way!
- Select your Rectangular Selection tool.
- Go to File > Modifier Keys...
- Tick the Ctrl and Alt check boxes
- Select "Tool Override" for Ctrl+Alt
- Now select Lasso.



The Lasso will now appear every time you press Ctrl+Alt (but ONLY while the Rectangular Selection active!)
-

Is switching language just a matter of removing the translation files and rebooting the program?
And if there's an update to CSP, do you guys set the language back to Japanese before updating it?

Yes, just put the Translation files into the directory and restart the program.
Updates will need a new Translation file. Each Translation file will only work with a specific version of CSP.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:16:24 PM by trev »

Galemod

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #413 on: November 08, 2012, 09:43:47 PM »
Hi, Trev!

Thanks for the visual walk-through explanation.  CSP's awesome programmable tool set is a bit hard to grasp at first.

Though, I had actually explored this avenue before and wasn't able to get the specific function I was after; on-the-fly shifting of the lasso tool property.

That is, having the lasso tool shift back and forth between its regular free-hand-selection mode to that of point-to-point polygonal selection during the actual selection process.  The solution allowed by CSP's key modifiers seemed promising at first, but doesn't allow for this shifting of tool behavior mid-selection.  As it stands, you have to complete a selected area before you can switch tool behavior with the mod keys.

Photoshop allows you to start selecting a complex area, and then if you have to reposition your hand during the selection process, (or scratch your nose), you just hit and hold ALT to toggle to polygonal mode and now you can lift your pen without the selected area auto-closing.  You can then re-position your hand and continue drawing the selection area.  If you keep the ALT key pressed, you continue doing so with point-to-point selection or you can release the key and just continue selecting free hand.  This little finger-dance on the ALT key makes Photoshop very easy to use for complex area selection.

If CSP can replicate this, or offer something similar, I've not found it yet.

Maybe I'm missing something. . ?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 09:52:09 PM by Galemod »

trevTopic starter

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #414 on: November 09, 2012, 07:01:07 AM »
Oh I seee! Hah I wasn't aware of this Photoshop function.. it's pretty handy!
Yea, I don't think this is possible in CSP as, like you said, it needs the tool to be inactive before it switches :(

Kaoyux

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #415 on: November 11, 2012, 05:37:26 AM »
Hi, people,

1. If I'm not wrong, I've read something about the new Clip Studio Paint EX version (you know, the extended one, not the PRO) in the official CLIP website
These are the differences between the PRO and the EX versions: http://www.clipstudio.net/paint/functional_list
And it seems it's going to be available for sale by the end of this month (November)
I don't know if the ones who already have the PRO version only need to pay the difference to get the EX version or not yet.
2. But would this english traduction suppodsely work for both PRO and EX versions?
I was about buying the PRO version, but after reading this update in the Clip website I'm not sure if it would be more convenient to buy the PRO version or just waiting a few more weeks to get the EX better (I guess the Clip Studio Paint EX version it has a lot of materials inside).
3. Here you are the prices. Scroll down and take a peek to the CLIP STUDIO PAINT PRO and CLIP STUDIO PAINT EX tables (translate the web to your language if necessary): http://www.clipstudio.net/paint/lineup I have a question: What is safer or better? buying the downloadable-online version or the box version? Because... there is a HUGE difference of price between them (so I don't know if you are only paying for the physical format/shipping costs or something else). And the serial... is permanent? or you will need to pay monthly to use the program after some time?
4. I have Illust Studio and Manga Studio. WILL Illust and Manga Studio brushes (.tos), 3d objects (.obj, .lws, .lwo, .6kt and pose studio models), screentones (.tne), textures (.tne), gradients (.cge) and etc stuff be COMPATIBLE with Clip Studio Paint as well or this new program only allows its own formats?

Sorry for so many questions, but I would be glad if someone could clarify my doubts before taking this decision and spending so much money  :-[
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 08:15:21 AM by Ireal »

Kosal

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #416 on: November 16, 2012, 04:59:16 PM »
For me, CSP pro is enough for what I'm doing with it. The new functions in CSP Ex seem to concern the comic pages so if you don't plan to work on it, you can choose the pro version. But actually, we may have to test the EX version to really see the differences !

For the serial, you can choose to pay it in just one time, and it's permanent. Just don't forget to copy the serial somewhere and don't loose it !

Kaoyux

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #417 on: November 19, 2012, 04:35:14 PM »
Thank you very much!
And yes, few days ago, when translating the differences between the PRO and EX version, I realized that the EX version can open, edit and save comic STORIES , not just single comic pages (among other intesresting things, tools and materials), so I think it would be quite convenient to me to get the EX version (I am a comic/doujinshi artist too who sells my doujins) :)

I wonder where they are going to release the EX version, because I haven't found any exact date anywhere.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 02:21:45 PM by Ireal »

Galemod

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #418 on: November 19, 2012, 08:00:38 PM »
@Ireal

Cool.  Let us know how EX performs when you manage to wrangle a copy.

As it stands, I'm currently using a combo of Photoshop and CSP.  Photoshop has a stronger text function, (you can, for instance, reduce the leading between lines to however small you want it whereas CSP can only reduce the line space to a certain minimum amount, which for my needs remains too large for the comic font I use). Also, the selection/lasso function in PS is far more adaptive, making it fast and easy to drop in gray tones.  But CSP offers far superior drawing tools, and I love using it for basic drawing/inking where Photoshop is rather clumsy.  CSP can also rotate the canvas easily without the need for a high-end graphics card.  Photoshop won't let me rotate the canvas on my old Tablet PC!

So I do basic layouts in Photoshop and then export to CSP where I do all the drawing/inking.  I do frequent saves while working using CSP's native .lip format before at last exporting back to PS where I put in the gray tones and perform the final pre-press work.  (It's far better, I find, to put in gray tones with Photoshop, save as .tif or .pdf files and allow the print agency to interpret those grays at the highest level of DPI their machines can output, (usually around 2400 - 3600 dpi), rather than create them yourself as 300 - 600 dpi bitmap screen tones in the image itself; I can always spot a homemade job because the screen tones come out slightly jaggy rather than being made of perfectly round dots.)

Also, Photoshop has much stronger file format control; you can output all the major file types used by professional printing agencies with a high level of reliable space and speed efficiency.  PS offers the ability to tweak how a file is saved within a particular format, allowing you to toggle compression algorithms, etc., which I find essential.

Photoshop is also rock-solid.  I've not had a crash or freeze-up with that program in years, whereas CSP has left me stranded a couple of times with a frozen machine.  (I think it's a memory issue or perhaps a result of using my older hardware and OS.)  As well, Photoshop can zoom in and out much more quickly where CSP will hang for a second or two sometimes when navigating the canvas.

I think in time that CSP can benefit from future revisions; it's still a very young program which, while well-featured and enormously clever, doesn't have the level of refinement Adobe has been able to give their premier art program over the last twenty years of development.  Twenty years of tweaking makes a difference!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 08:37:19 PM by Galemod »

Memag

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Re: CLIP STUDIO PAINT Translation
« Reply #419 on: November 19, 2012, 09:14:49 PM »
Also, Photoshop has much stronger file format control; you can output all the major file types used by professional printing agencies with a high level of reliable space and speed efficiency.  PS offers the ability to tweak how a file is saved within a particular format, allowing you to toggle compression algorithms, etc., which I find essential.

Photoshop is also rock-solid.  I've not had a crash or freeze-up with that program in years, whereas CSP has left me stranded a couple of times with a frozen machine.  (I think it's a memory issue or perhaps a result of using my older hardware and OS.)  As well, Photoshop can zoom in and out much more quickly where CSP will hang for a second or two sometimes when navigating the canvas.

I think in time that CSP can benefit from future revisions; it's still a very young program which, while well-featured and enormously clever, doesn't have the level of refinement Adobe has been able to give their premier art program over the last twenty years of development.  Twenty years of tweaking makes a difference!


Agreed. This is yet a first version of CSP where PS is in it's old age of steady growth.
Adobe is titan compared to Celsys. I am sure Celsys will look into file formats in the future, for now it's okay I guess, thankful for PSD and Tiff formats as they are right now.
I never had a problem with CSP crashing or freezing, so I cannot comment on when and where these errors occur.Photoshop is a performance beast indeed, at least the 64bit version.Essential for my work.
I found that beta of CSP (Clip Lab?) was blazing fast with image manipulation, rotation,zooming, painting on highest res etc. It seems this can lead to problems in official version as it seem it slowed down for some reason.
I wouldn't even mention Corel Painter if you didn't touch the performance issues. While great engine and nice new UI, performance and loose ends kept me away from it.

Let's hope Celsys polishes out CSP ASAP.