Author Topic: ALT application to SAI??  (Read 18319 times)

Madkoifish

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ALT application to SAI??
« on: July 17, 2011, 05:33:43 AM »
Ok after some lengthy period of no hassle suddenly my copy has gone and become an annoyance.
Keeps giving me that CANVAS FAILED crap when I attempt to export or save as in anything but SAI or PSD. Now to fix it it means me taking all my art and resaving it on another pc with SAI. This is like a lot of files. Back in the XP days I could cheat it by deleting files and messing with the reg or editing the meta data. But now in win7 I have deleted all traces of SAI data all over (man does it puke all over the place, vs xp) It still fails leaving me with the resave on a different pc. This happens with the Chinese crack and with my licensed version.
So long and short Im sick of it. Im sick of the odd lag/hang, sick of the dropper bug, sick of the loosing pressure randomly.  ::)
Don't get me wrong I love the app, I could live with the other annoyances, but this whole save fail thing is irksome.
SO what is a simple alternative to SAI?

I want the brush blending etc so apps like gimp etc are insta-fail. I have looked into iluststudio but it stinks of annoyance too. The whole online translation whatsit etc. Im still going to attempt to try it but the whole getting a LEGAL copy thing irks me. (cracks for try out ok, but eh)

What other apps are people on pixiv etc using now?   :-\
I want to continue to do this sort of work (see links) without returning to the days of photoshop and the hours upon hours faking the blends.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 02:18:33 AM by Madkoifish »

asmIllustrations

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2011, 07:03:22 AM »
gimp paint studio can actually blend pretty good compared to the old version of gimp. give it a shot :3

Madkoifish

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2011, 07:55:58 AM »
It appears only to be opacity based overlay. I cannot get it to do any blending whatsoever.
What I want is the brush to pull up the other colours and have adjustments for this.

asmIllustrations

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 12:40:03 PM »
I use it all the time o.o you could be using the wrong brush if anything try azpainting :3

Madkoifish

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 01:16:03 PM »
Nope yanked off all the stock brushes and verified multiple times, it is only opacity paint. It will not interact with the paint underneath. That and gimp pukes all over into the shell and system. Granted it would take less effort to hack it all out than it did to localize all of IS. :D  Have to say it is MUCH nicer than it was a few years back.

azpainting is just another opacity painter.

IS sorta works but it is more like these above apps in that it really does not pull up the paint underneath. I can do what I want in them but it would take much longer.

Found a app called Mypaint but it only interacts with the existing stroke. Meaning if you lift up it will not interact with the "paint".

Example of how SAI will pull up existing paint.
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8678/saih.jpg

Ignore the text this is a old image to explain SAI to someone.


Better examples of the above images.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7659/paintexamples.jpg

FOr now I just resaved all my psd files. Took a few hours. heh Spent 12 messing with IS and looking for alt apps. Keeping IS for the cheats, like lace pen and the like. Wish SAI would have developed like it did over time vs just dieing and not going anywhere. T_T

Going to keep looking and try to keep at IS, maybe it is a learning curve or a need to re-learn painting. Some of the stuff i seen done with it mimics oils fairly well. I guess it is a need to relearn how to blend colour via layering again like in PS.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:38:19 PM by Madkoifish »

Madkoifish

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 01:18:32 PM »
Ugh spam script. Hates teh urls. Added in image urls since the forum displays em zoomed out.

odd 14 posts?!? was there a forum purge at some point? :D Oh well.

asmIllustrations

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 06:22:32 PM »
I love my paint <3 I should of said that first but not a lot of people like it.

Coda

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 10:46:14 PM »
Wow.. aren't you a picky little fella.
You know what we say?
It's not the tool, it's one that's wielding it. -  A bad dancer can even have his own dick in his way.
But don't take it heartily, it's just a foreign saying :)

You have plenty alternatives, from Azdraw/ Azpaint / Nekopaint / My Paint / ArtRage ... the list goes on!
It's a question of choice. People succeed in creating wonderful artwork in every single one of those.
Try them, who knows one may move you more than SAI ever did.

At the very end you have the ol' fashioned Open Canvas, that IS STILL AVAILABLE (with plenty of crack and =/= versions all over the net)  AND does have you so desired underlying color blending!

Good luck on it!
:)

Madkoifish

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 02:24:52 AM »
Here have a saying yourself

Because what works for one does not work for all.

This forum never used to be so hostile.


Coda

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 02:40:52 AM »
Hostile?

Who's the one that has been jerking all over from the start?
Nothing is good enough, everything stinks...
Excuse me for coming at you at the same tone! \o/o\o/...

Madkoifish

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 08:55:37 AM »
Maybe I am wrong in my conclusion that the threads and content were removed when I closed my membership? That or admin work fast. Not to give the wrong impression I deleted my last post (or thought I did) and closed my account to avoid any "drama" Figured Id be done with the forum. Since someone hunted me down and hinted that I removed it for other reasons. I rejoined to clear this confusion up.

I inferred hostility from your previous post. Maybe I was mistaken to the meaning of our post.  :-\
No where did I say any app was not good enough. I just said they did not meet my needs, is there some rule somewhere saying I'm a asshole for stating this? Or that I should be disrespected because of this? I just do not see the issue here. Obviously my intent was lost if my posts were taken as abrasive and insulting. :-\

I do appreciate the suggestions made, I would not have known about the gimp paint add on otherwise.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 09:59:03 AM by Madkoifish »

trev

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 11:50:34 AM »
This happens with the Chinese crack and with my licensed version.
So long and short Im sick of it. Im sick of the odd lag/hang, sick of the dropper bug, sick of the loosing pressure randomly.  ::)
Don't get me wrong I love the app, I could live with the other annoyances, but this whole save fail thing is irksome.

Weird. I've never had any of the issues you've mentioned.. in 3 years of use? (I've got SAI installed on 3 completely different machines too. XP and W7.) But then again, I do own legal copies.

IllustStudio mimics SAI's paint system pretty much identically. Its a more feature rich/robust brush engine than SAI too. That's going to be your best alternative.

Mikan

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 01:19:58 AM »
Late reply, but I had much the same issues you have. Illustudio is really the only option so far as I can see.  Sai does opacity/translucency better than anything else, but illustudio can be made to be pretty close.  Sai has a memory leak problem unfortunately, and those errors come up when you try to get really big with the canvas unfortunately.  Legal or not.  I've been using sai since the alpha, some 6-7 years ago, and been a legal owner since 1.0 release, and have always had those errors when I try to do anything that pushes my memory.  

  It has no way to memory manage huge canvases, that are outside your ram capability, like on a swap file or something like most art programs do.

Right tool for the right job.  You can't build a space shuttle with a stone age rock tools.

Sick of that line of thought in America.  Makes me sick.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 01:25:42 AM by Mikan »

trev

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 02:31:28 AM »
It has no way to memory manage huge canvases, that are outside your ram capability, like on a swap file or something like most art programs do.

Ah, I never knew this.
Working with a 1GB .sai file [8000x8000@72dpi w/ 85 layers] (which is about the maximum you can get out of SAI) and I've never experienced any of these memory leaks?
It usually tells me 'Not enough memory' in the error log and then cancels the current operation:



Dunno, maybe I'm doing it wrong. I've always had 4GB+ RAM in my systems running SAI, so that might be why I don't experience these memory leaks?
I think that SAI is one of THE most stable applications I've ever used :3

Mikan

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Re: ALT application to SAI??
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 10:15:50 PM »
Try to do a flip canvas, or something that is a process.  It also will happen on saves when it gets really bad.  You have to use it for a while.  It will start happening in random operations.Try to do a flip canvas, or something that is a process.   Right now I'm working on a 3600x5400 piece and sai is very likely to crash if I try anything intensive with it, on a 4gb quad core.   It's probably worse of course if you're using other apps that are sapping memory.  I usually have a browser open that's taking up a ram or two.  

Sai is limited to 10kx10k, but the upper limits of a particular system are ram dependant.  My max size on this machine is supposed to be 5800x5800.  You can go into options and look at workspace usage.

  Those limits are pretty sad for a graphic application.  I'm working on a poster right now.  If I wanted to go larger I wouldn't be able to use sai at all, even if I was using my 64 bit machine with 8 gigs.  Of course sai being 32 bit will only recognize 4gb even if you have 8gb.  Max size on my 64 bit machine is 8191x8191, with full 4095 memory showing out of the available 8gb.

Probably also layers will be a generator of problems.  I usually have at least 10 layers for my works, so that may be the difference between us.

This was an attempt at a flip, followed by a rotate, that caused a failed canvas, on a legal copy.  It happens.  At its upper limits when you try to really push the canvas Sai unfortunately fails.




This is actually a well known problem.  I've spoken with the designer about it.  This is actually why I believe sai development is stalled.  The designer stated to me that he had to go back and start at the beginning and basically create a new sai to add more tools because of the memory leaks in sai.

Sai is not a completed program.  There are blatant tools like a text tool completely missing.  The designer basically dropped the project in the middle of working on it and decided to release it as is because of these problems.


Also there is a huge difference in how sai handles opacity and dragging of colors to any other app out there, and that's what I believe the original poster was complaining about.  It may seem like nit picking, but it's actually a huge time saver the way sai does it, and I've never found it on any other application.

The big difference you can really see though is when you layer percentage painting translucent strokes over each other.  Sai has an absolute control that is always linked to the pressure of the tablet, while every other painting application is a relative control that will layer a stroke over the one under it, creating a darker streak between two paint strokes layered over each other on the same layer.

I've noted this before in a similar thread.  This is a very small thing, but it makes sai a much better handler of digital paint in my opinion than any other app out there.  If you're an artist going for a particular look and become used to the way sai handles it, it really is a step back when you go to another application.  It can be really frustrating to achieve a smooth shaded surface in those applications compared to sai. 

  This is something at the core of sai, that is different from every other way painting apps have been designed and really a great feature.  It's just sad that sai isn't more complete and the development has stalled.  There really needs to be a sai 2.0
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 11:05:53 PM by Mikan »