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Messages - Mikan

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General Discussion / Re: CLIP [Paint Lab]
« on: January 13, 2012, 11:09:09 PM »

General Discussion / Re: ALT application to SAI??
« on: January 13, 2012, 10:15:50 PM »
Try to do a flip canvas, or something that is a process.  It also will happen on saves when it gets really bad.  You have to use it for a while.  It will start happening in random operations.Try to do a flip canvas, or something that is a process.   Right now I'm working on a 3600x5400 piece and sai is very likely to crash if I try anything intensive with it, on a 4gb quad core.   It's probably worse of course if you're using other apps that are sapping memory.  I usually have a browser open that's taking up a ram or two.  

Sai is limited to 10kx10k, but the upper limits of a particular system are ram dependant.  My max size on this machine is supposed to be 5800x5800.  You can go into options and look at workspace usage.

  Those limits are pretty sad for a graphic application.  I'm working on a poster right now.  If I wanted to go larger I wouldn't be able to use sai at all, even if I was using my 64 bit machine with 8 gigs.  Of course sai being 32 bit will only recognize 4gb even if you have 8gb.  Max size on my 64 bit machine is 8191x8191, with full 4095 memory showing out of the available 8gb.

Probably also layers will be a generator of problems.  I usually have at least 10 layers for my works, so that may be the difference between us.

This was an attempt at a flip, followed by a rotate, that caused a failed canvas, on a legal copy.  It happens.  At its upper limits when you try to really push the canvas Sai unfortunately fails.

This is actually a well known problem.  I've spoken with the designer about it.  This is actually why I believe sai development is stalled.  The designer stated to me that he had to go back and start at the beginning and basically create a new sai to add more tools because of the memory leaks in sai.

Sai is not a completed program.  There are blatant tools like a text tool completely missing.  The designer basically dropped the project in the middle of working on it and decided to release it as is because of these problems.

Also there is a huge difference in how sai handles opacity and dragging of colors to any other app out there, and that's what I believe the original poster was complaining about.  It may seem like nit picking, but it's actually a huge time saver the way sai does it, and I've never found it on any other application.

The big difference you can really see though is when you layer percentage painting translucent strokes over each other.  Sai has an absolute control that is always linked to the pressure of the tablet, while every other painting application is a relative control that will layer a stroke over the one under it, creating a darker streak between two paint strokes layered over each other on the same layer.

I've noted this before in a similar thread.  This is a very small thing, but it makes sai a much better handler of digital paint in my opinion than any other app out there.  If you're an artist going for a particular look and become used to the way sai handles it, it really is a step back when you go to another application.  It can be really frustrating to achieve a smooth shaded surface in those applications compared to sai. 

  This is something at the core of sai, that is different from every other way painting apps have been designed and really a great feature.  It's just sad that sai isn't more complete and the development has stalled.  There really needs to be a sai 2.0

What changed, where to get it?

General Discussion / Re:
« on: January 08, 2012, 06:29:23 PM »
Ok, so where do you buy like retas studio full, and illustudio?  I can't find another site?  Anyone know where it is?

General Discussion / Re:
« on: January 07, 2012, 02:45:19 AM »
ah...$5/month....wonder how that gotta pay per month to use it? that seems...strange

General Discussion /
« on: January 07, 2012, 01:45:08 AM » 

So I see they've bought most of the good Japanese programs it looks like to me...but am I reading the price right?  It looks like most of them only cost around $5-10??  Has anyone bought anything from them?

Is 1.2 still the latest version?

General Discussion / Re: ALT application to SAI??
« on: January 07, 2012, 01:19:58 AM »
Late reply, but I had much the same issues you have. Illustudio is really the only option so far as I can see.  Sai does opacity/translucency better than anything else, but illustudio can be made to be pretty close.  Sai has a memory leak problem unfortunately, and those errors come up when you try to get really big with the canvas unfortunately.  Legal or not.  I've been using sai since the alpha, some 6-7 years ago, and been a legal owner since 1.0 release, and have always had those errors when I try to do anything that pushes my memory.  

  It has no way to memory manage huge canvases, that are outside your ram capability, like on a swap file or something like most art programs do.

Right tool for the right job.  You can't build a space shuttle with a stone age rock tools.

Sick of that line of thought in America.  Makes me sick.

General Discussion / Re: CLIP [Paint Lab]
« on: January 07, 2012, 01:16:02 AM »
Tried the .6 english translated version.  There's no way to change hotkeys, or am I missing something?  Looks about the same as illustudio2 which I've been using for the last year or so...dont seen anything new or interesting in it.

Awesome!!  Just magicwanded the latest 4thpaint, and it worked on all the menus.  Thanks for this.  Can finally understand all the numerous options in that program completely.

SAI in English / Re: The Blur Tool!!!! HELP!!!
« on: April 14, 2011, 12:32:39 PM »
I've done a lot of comparison to the way Sai handles transparency and bluring and pushing of colors.  It's completely unique.  All other paint programs use a buildup method mainly.  So if you do like a 20% stroke over another 20% stroke you wind up with a 40% stroke where they overlap.  In sai this isn't absolute and the cross section will be calculated so that it's based absolutely on the pressure of the stroke.  It's like having absolute control over opacity/translucency versus relative control on a tablet, but for transparency.  

This also effects how it can blur colors.

It also doesn't treat clear on layers as white, or as a color in itself, as most other painting applications like painter 11, Photoshop, and many even bigger better known painting programs.  It treats it as null as it should be.  That's the biggest difference in how blurring and pushing color is better in Sai.

It's pretty amazing, other programs should learn from Sai and give this option.  I've been suggesting it to the writer of 4th paint to add this option for a while but no go there.  It's something that the writer of Sai must have really thought about and worked on.

General Discussion / Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
« on: April 24, 2010, 09:06:41 AM »
I managed to kind of figure out how to blend, it's a bit different and more difficult than sai, but managing to get some pretty good effects now. 

  Now I just need to figure out the tone/texture .tns files, how to make them, or where to get them, any hints?

General Discussion / Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
« on: March 30, 2010, 04:15:03 AM »

This is an example of the brush and blender I use in sai the most.  You can see that the first brush, when I make an x, that is, when I pick up the brush and start a new stroke, the part which is overpainted by the second stroke doesn't darken, in other words it doesn't create a darkened diamond in the center of the x.  Both 4th paint and Photoshop do this, and I don't know a way to stop them from doing it or why Sai is so much better. With the brush I use in Sai, it's completely dependent on the pressure of the brush.  It makes it much easier to shade a painting and doesn't leave streaks like if you were to do two strokes next to each other there would be a darkened section down the center of the two strokes.   

  With the blender I use, it doesn't recognize clear, it only will take the color that the brush falls on.  With both 4th paint and Photoshop, clear/transparent on the layer is treated like it's another color with the blender, this is completely ridiculous because it tends to make the blenders act as an eraser, and limits the stroke that you can perform to blend, or extend a color with.    It just doesn't look right to me.  I can still sketch stuff out in 4th paint I suppose, but it's much more difficult to finish a painting I'm doing using 4th paint or photoshop tools than sai.

Susumu's a really great guy and really helped me with the cursor problem. 4th paint's cursor now can be completely adjusted for linear correction, which means it should work on almost every tabletpc once you dial in the correction.  That's something that even Sai doesn't really have, it's sometimes hit and miss with what works on a tabletpc with it.  Anyway, I hope he can add something in for the blenders at least if it's not already in there, and maybe I'm missing it, but the blenders(the finger/pallete knife) shouldn't be treating the clear part of a layer as a color.

Anyway I'll try your settings as well, maybe it'll work.  Thanks.

General Discussion / Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
« on: March 23, 2010, 07:41:56 PM »
Yeah I was never really able to make good blenders in opencanvas either, but I never really ever got past the sketch stage in opencanvas because it doesn't have a way to modify/skew selections.  Even photoshop beat opencanvas as far as that went.

General Discussion / Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
« on: March 23, 2010, 05:31:44 PM »
I've been playing around with it for about a week now, and still can't find a brush/mixer/finger setting that will let me blend as well as I can in Sai.  The mixing tools all seem to pick up clear areas, which in sai, the mixing brush's ignore clear, and will only pick up color, and fill the brush.  This is a major annoyance to me.  Photoshop is the same way, and I really can't stand blending in Photoshop because of this.   In all other ways it's very superior, except I'm having a cursor alignment problem with my widescreen tabletpcs which Susumu is trying to help me with, but not succeeding so far.

I successfully purchased the program.  Susumu emailed the online store and then the store emailed me, and I emailed them my personal info, which they then set up a foreign account for me.  Then I was able to purchase the program with a if anyone is interested and doesn't mind dealing with no English support, it's definitely a superior program.  As much as I love sai, I've been working in it for like 4 years now, 4paint beats it in almost every area at this point.  The major factor is that it allows for much larger canvas's and paintings.  In sai I'm limited to about 4000x3000, before my 4gig memory system starts throwing errors at me, with 4paint I can go up to 8000x6000 easy.

It's somewhat less user friendly with selection and modification/rotation, than Sai is, but again the difference is minor enough that I would still prefer 4paint since 4paint allows me to double the resolution I'm working with.

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