Paint Tool SAI in English

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: blurymind on July 27, 2008, 12:29:04 AM

Title: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on July 27, 2008, 12:29:04 AM
http://www.4paint.net/

but its in japanese  :-[

also sai's brush tool's feature will be incorporated in gimp 2.6 probably.Check this out baby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIg8Omew9Ps

so yeah,finally the linux world will enjoy sai's brushes natively

EDIT- sry 4paint is a trial again, damn
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on July 27, 2008, 12:55:42 AM
hey 4paint has awesome tools that sai doesnt- check out the brushes!
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on July 27, 2008, 12:59:48 PM
ok i hate to bring it,but it seems that gimp devs abandoned this feature   :'(
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on July 27, 2008, 10:42:03 PM
I never liked Gimp, for me the interface is just as important as the brushes. I tried 4th paint it's a mix of opencanvas with blending, seems a bit buggy, the brush engine is very responsive but some brushes are really slow.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on July 27, 2008, 11:56:38 PM
I never liked Gimp, for me the interface is just as important as the brushes. I tried 4th paint it's a mix of opencanvas with blending, seems a bit buggy, the brush engine is very responsive but some brushes are really slow.
they changed the interface in 2.5 and it will likely evolve more until it reaches 2.6... it looks a lot like photoshope's
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on November 10, 2008, 09:46:43 PM
Today came out a new version of 4th paint, it has some really amazing brush dab options (something that SAI is excruciatingly missing since it only has a solid round brush wtf?!) now you can control the outer edge thickness as well as the center softness, the stroke flow is also really impressive because you can control spacing the flow is always constant unlike SAI which is dependent on how fast your brush stroke is. I have to explore 4th paint a little more later, hopefully an English version will come out someday, if you're tired of the ultra slow development of SAI and it's lack of updates I strongly recommend giving 4th paint a try, very similar programs.

they changed the interface in 2.5 and it will likely evolve more until it reaches 2.6... it looks a lot like photoshope's


Yeah they're getting there, the new interface is still a little weird to me though.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on November 11, 2008, 08:00:46 PM
4th paint really has some brush features that sai lacks and most of all- its free,no evaluations..

I would really love to see 4thpaint translated.Its really a great piece of software!


as for gimp- i asked some of gimps devs on its mailing list about that brush feature and they told me that they are not likely to officially implement it soon,because of the way gimp handles memory usage and its infrastructure are not designed well enough to handle it.. =(
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on January 16, 2009, 12:22:27 AM
damn,4th paint will never get translated.. i wish i knew how to google translate it at least  :'(
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on January 16, 2009, 12:37:56 AM
Yeah I've emailed them about a possible english translation of 4thpaint never got a reply, with SAI I got a reply so I'm not going to put much hope in an english patch anytime soon, a shame because the brush engines in 4thpaint are really amazing and you can even flip the image like in SAI.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on January 16, 2009, 02:30:46 AM
4th paint really has some brush features that sai lacks and most of all- its free,no evaluations..

I would really love to see 4thpaint translated.Its really a great piece of software!


as for gimp- i asked some of gimps devs on its mailing list about that brush feature and they told me that they are not likely to officially implement it soon,because of the way gimp handles memory usage and its infrastructure are not designed well enough to handle it.. =(
It-s a trial...it says TRIAL USER,it wouldn't said that if it was a free software
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on January 17, 2009, 01:05:06 AM
but the trial never ends for me..thats perculiar
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on January 21, 2009, 12:09:26 AM
but the trial never ends for me..thats perculiar
How long have you been using it?Usually with this programs trial ends in 30 days...if you just started to use it wait for 30 days then you'll know if it's a trial.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on February 10, 2009, 07:16:57 PM
I think you're right....there's no ending in the trial...peculiar
Since their own site doesn't want to translate the program can someone do it here??Please??!!
Or at least make a tutorial that explains all(and by that i mean every single) feature of the program so people who don't understand can try it(me included)
The program is really good,it's a bit like a mix of oC & SAI,actually there are even more features then in those 2,i would really like to try it out with understanding what i'm doing off course.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on March 04, 2009, 01:56:37 PM
i would really like to know that too.It is possible to translate it,even on a binary level.I've seen applications that unpack exe files....

there is no trial,and it doesnt check any files like sai does

it has many cool brush features that sai does not have
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 04, 2009, 07:24:40 PM
I would be content if the Preference options and the brush options were the only thing translated, you know what I mean if you attempted to mess with the settings since there's tons of them.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on March 04, 2009, 07:27:18 PM
i would really like to know that too.It is possible to translate it,even on a binary level.I've seen applications that unpack exe files....

I just analyze this program with ResHacker, and find that almost all prog can be translated without disassembling exe file.
Maybe I will try to make google-translated version of 4th paint.

upd

just answer me to one question - it is trial or not? and can I use trial version all time?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 04, 2009, 10:20:43 PM
Thanks for the tip on ResHacker! I was trying to remember the name of that program for a while, anyway I managed to test my black cursors on SAI.

Check it out:
(http://www.vulomedia.com/images/6684ScreenShot001.png)


Here's the cursor if you want to test it too, it's the exact default SAI cursor except I colored it black and added a white pixel to the tip so you don't miss it when painting over dark areas.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on March 06, 2009, 01:38:08 PM
Wow!This is a good program but i can't translate anything because every single letter looks like this: ????????
How can you translate a question mark?
The only thing i changed is the cursor for painting,i really hate the one in 4thpaint,you can hardly see it when you're painting
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on March 11, 2009, 12:48:05 AM
its hard to really say.everything is in japanese. ::)   ::)
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on March 25, 2009, 11:36:37 PM
I just leave it here ;D

(http://images.detstwo.com/thumbs/6SSrNo.png) (http://images.detstwo.com/view/6SSrNo.png)
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 26, 2009, 07:55:46 AM
Do want!
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on March 31, 2009, 12:21:58 AM
I just leave it here ;D

(http://images.detstwo.com/thumbs/6SSrNo.png) (http://images.detstwo.com/view/6SSrNo.png)

me too! Have mercy, share it  ;D you're my hero
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on April 01, 2009, 03:25:15 AM
problem appeared....
damn, 4th paint is trial, and it don't allow save files.

I will try to find way to "fix" this :)
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on April 01, 2009, 06:54:48 PM
funny...some previous version could save...why not the latest?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on April 02, 2009, 02:51:00 AM
Can you send me version that still can save?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on April 02, 2009, 01:51:10 PM
Can you send me version that still can save?

I think you just have to delete its registry and application settings folder and the countdown will restart. Unlike sai,this one doesnt store that info in files.

IMO if you release its translation,more people will be interested in cracking it
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on April 02, 2009, 03:14:23 PM
Quote
I think you just have to delete its registry and application settings folder and the countdown will restart. Unlike sai,this one doesnt store that info in files.

Already tried.
At last, I can found how 4th paint set "save" / "not save" flag:

1) I download latest program version
2) Run it, create new file and save it. Successfully.
3) I set July on calendar.
4) Run program, create new file -> Can't save.
5) I restore clock (to April)
6) Run it, create new file and save it. Successfully.

So every 4th paint version work for specified period of time, for example 0.9.76 work from March 20 to April 15 (I don't know for sure, just proposal)

Quote
IMO if you release its translation,more people will be interested in cracking it

I will release translation at next week. Just want to fix some strings.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on April 04, 2009, 04:39:30 PM
Already tried.
At last, I can found how 4th paint set "save" / "not save" flag:

1) I download latest program version
2) Run it, create new file and save it. Successfully.
3) I set July on calendar.
4) Run program, create new file -> Can't save.
5) I restore clock (to April)
6) Run it, create new file and save it. Successfully.

So every 4th paint version work for specified period of time, for example 0.9.76 work from March 20 to April 15 (I don't know for sure, just proposal)

I will release translation at next week. Just want to fix some strings.

How do you remove the program from you're PC?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on April 11, 2009, 06:59:30 PM
its following some release cicle i guess.. You can lock its timer on one date by using an application called cracklock
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on May 03, 2009, 02:22:00 AM
still waiting =(
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on May 03, 2009, 10:29:16 PM
Ohh, sorry, I completely forgot about that.
http://sai.detstwo.com/sai/files/4th-paint-en.zip

Even with cracklock I can't find appropriate date, so I think I download it broken or I broke it while translating.
I downloaded new 4th paint version, and it can save. I will try to translate new ver.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on May 04, 2009, 06:42:47 PM
Restorer,Thank you for taking the time to translate this application. Unlike sai,this seems to be done in binary,which does look hard to do.

I can now see that it does not allow saving files.Probably its set to allow between two fixed dates,and writes to the registry when time's out.  :'(


Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on May 04, 2009, 06:47:43 PM
Quote
Unlike sai,this seems to be done in binary,which does look hard to do.

No, it is just like SAI up to ver 1.0.

Quote
and writes to the registry when time's out

I think that 4th paint is not saving trial state to registry, because I tried to run this prog on virtual machine with empty windows with no success.

I'd better translate the new version, which can save for sure.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: blurymind on May 04, 2009, 07:19:44 PM
once a new version is translated,I am quite certain that it is absolutely possible to freeze its date with cracklock.Only problem is that 4paint doesnt show remaining days and its rather hard to indicate if the workaround worked

If it stores its translation on a sepparate file,why cant i find it in the archive..and wouldnt it be backwards compatable ?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: restorer on May 05, 2009, 02:43:27 PM
Quote
If it stores its translation on a sepparate file,why cant i find it in the archive..and wouldnt it be backwards compatable ?

No, there is no separate file with translation.
I'm just mean that SAI prior to ver. 1.0 has no separate translation file, and I embed translation into .exe file (just like 4th paint)
Title: 4th paint /gimp free alternative to sai
Post by: Cippheme on July 22, 2009, 10:01:16 PM
ok, not that I use any of these two, I have my own registered copy of CS. but I thought gimp was a free program. I never Googled it to check it out. is the other one a registered program?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on July 28, 2009, 01:56:23 AM
Yes Gimp is free and I use it to make textures, there's some nice packs and themes that you can install to make it easier to use and with new features like the ink pen and blending in Gimp.


I've also tried the new versions of 4th paint and nekopaint and both have way better selection tools than SAI, you can select in non-contiguous mode, meaning that if, lets say your character has the same blue color for the shoes and eyes, you can magic wand the shoes and both the eyes and shoes get selected, this is specially useful if you work in cel-shading and need to select various parts of the same color to edit (change color for example), in SAI you have to select every small bit if you want to pick all the color.

SAI has been too quiet, it could have at least gotten a couple updates like better selection tools and remove the 100px binary pen limit, but it's almost an year without any update.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: BlackRose18 on July 31, 2009, 07:11:19 AM
They had a varied limit for the color itself! I really like it into the SAI.



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Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: minray on August 12, 2009, 06:17:34 PM
Yes Gimp is free and I use it to make textures, there's some nice packs and themes that you can install to make it easier to use and with new features like the ink pen and blending in Gimp.


I've also tried the new versions of 4th paint and nekopaint and both have way better selection tools than SAI, you can select in non-contiguous mode, meaning that if, lets say your character has the same blue color for the shoes and eyes, you can magic wand the shoes and both the eyes and shoes get selected, this is specially useful if you work in cel-shading and need to select various parts of the same color to edit (change color for example), in SAI you have to select every small bit if you want to pick all the color.

SAI has been too quiet, it could have at least gotten a couple updates like better selection tools and remove the 100px binary pen limit, but it's almost an year without any update.

I can't use nekopaint for some reason it doesn't wanna start on my PC.4'th paint has a date limit & cracklock doesn't work.
I nver had good exp. with GIMP...it's maybe free but i always had problems with that program.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on August 18, 2009, 07:59:47 AM
Try the "tab" version which is actually the test version, nekopaint now has pressure control, really nice for cel-shading.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Coda on August 20, 2009, 02:24:11 PM
Simply out of curiousity i downloaded nekopaint, but i am getting an impression here that this one doesn't run on 64bit OS?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: spacenight on December 09, 2009, 10:17:08 PM
4th Paint V.1.0.0 is Ready  :)
The Licene cost 5600 yen
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on December 15, 2009, 11:50:24 PM
Simply out of curiousity i downloaded nekopaint, but i am getting an impression here that this one doesn't run on 64bit OS?


They put out a 64bit version, I still like doing cel shading in NekoPaint, it's great with a couple of custom brushes.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on January 31, 2010, 09:15:51 PM
Anyone want to give a try translating NekoPaint? It's not time limited as far as I can tell. Really want to know what those options in the preferences are :p
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on March 17, 2010, 01:04:06 PM
Thanks for that translation, that really helps, I can keep it open on one computer and draw on the other while I'm figuring everything out.

The new version seems really good, and seems like it's being more updated than SAI...it seems like it has all the necessities that sai set out, plus some better brushes....   

sai hasn't had an update in like almost a year?

Anyone know how to buy 4th paint? I looked all over the site, but can find neither an email to write to, or a place to purchase a license. 




*edit*

Found the store for Japanese users at least here:

  http://www.free-sharesoft.com/libDL/jp990001ZWY40000/0101.html

Not sure if you can buy it with an american card yet.

Looks like not, the payment service seems to require a Japanese address to be a registered user.

Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on March 18, 2010, 08:53:49 PM
I emailed support@4paint.net and Susume said that he'd be willing to sell me a copy if I gave him a cc.. but absolutely no English help will be available.  Hopefully he'll at least help me with a driver issue I'm having with my tabletpc.  Anyway, looking like a good program, it's at least sai's equal for sketching if not coloring and has things like text function which Sai is missing. The only issue I have with it so far is that it looks like it's harder to blend colors in than Sai right now.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: tovan on March 23, 2010, 01:41:50 PM
Well..

4thpaint is great.

Actually, i just need the custom brush. It's really good. Gimp is good as well, however, I'm not comfortable with its memory management or whacamacalit ~
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 23, 2010, 04:58:53 PM
It's a solid program and if you play around you'll be able to blend even better than SAI. It's specially great because you have that Photoshop hard brush which is essential to mix colors (read not blend).
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on March 23, 2010, 05:31:44 PM
I've been playing around with it for about a week now, and still can't find a brush/mixer/finger setting that will let me blend as well as I can in Sai.  The mixing tools all seem to pick up clear areas, which in sai, the mixing brush's ignore clear, and will only pick up color, and fill the brush.  This is a major annoyance to me.  Photoshop is the same way, and I really can't stand blending in Photoshop because of this.   In all other ways it's very superior, except I'm having a cursor alignment problem with my widescreen tabletpcs which Susumu is trying to help me with, but not succeeding so far.

I successfully purchased the program.  Susumu emailed the online store and then the store emailed me, and I emailed them my personal info, which they then set up a foreign account for me.  Then I was able to purchase the program with a card..so if anyone is interested and doesn't mind dealing with no English support, it's definitely a superior program.  As much as I love sai, I've been working in it for like 4 years now, 4paint beats it in almost every area at this point.  The major factor is that it allows for much larger canvas's and paintings.  In sai I'm limited to about 4000x3000, before my 4gig memory system starts throwing errors at me, with 4paint I can go up to 8000x6000 easy.

It's somewhat less user friendly with selection and modification/rotation, than Sai is, but again the difference is minor enough that I would still prefer 4paint since 4paint allows me to double the resolution I'm working with.


Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 23, 2010, 06:50:48 PM
I no longer have 4th paint since the demo ran out long ago and I couldn't save my brushes, I'll try it again and see if I can make some blenders and post screenshots. If you're familiar with Opencanvas it's the same deal but with much more options and control.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on March 23, 2010, 07:41:56 PM
Yeah I was never really able to make good blenders in opencanvas either, but I never really ever got past the sketch stage in opencanvas because it doesn't have a way to modify/skew selections.  Even photoshop beat opencanvas as far as that went.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on March 26, 2010, 06:48:59 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/20k7z0h.png)

The default brushes are decent enough, check the one highlighted, adjusting the pressure and using a custom dab may help but I don't know if it's even possible to put custom dabs and textures in 4th paint.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on March 30, 2010, 04:15:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQA4XY8Mb3I

This is an example of the brush and blender I use in sai the most.  You can see that the first brush, when I make an x, that is, when I pick up the brush and start a new stroke, the part which is overpainted by the second stroke doesn't darken, in other words it doesn't create a darkened diamond in the center of the x.  Both 4th paint and Photoshop do this, and I don't know a way to stop them from doing it or why Sai is so much better. With the brush I use in Sai, it's completely dependent on the pressure of the brush.  It makes it much easier to shade a painting and doesn't leave streaks like if you were to do two strokes next to each other there would be a darkened section down the center of the two strokes.   

  With the blender I use, it doesn't recognize clear, it only will take the color that the brush falls on.  With both 4th paint and Photoshop, clear/transparent on the layer is treated like it's another color with the blender, this is completely ridiculous because it tends to make the blenders act as an eraser, and limits the stroke that you can perform to blend, or extend a color with.    It just doesn't look right to me.  I can still sketch stuff out in 4th paint I suppose, but it's much more difficult to finish a painting I'm doing using 4th paint or photoshop tools than sai.

Susumu's a really great guy and really helped me with the cursor problem. 4th paint's cursor now can be completely adjusted for linear correction, which means it should work on almost every tabletpc once you dial in the correction.  That's something that even Sai doesn't really have, it's sometimes hit and miss with what works on a tabletpc with it.  Anyway, I hope he can add something in for the blenders at least if it's not already in there, and maybe I'm missing it, but the blenders(the finger/pallete knife) shouldn't be treating the clear part of a layer as a color.


Anyway I'll try your settings as well, maybe it'll work.  Thanks.


Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Mikan on April 24, 2010, 09:06:41 AM
I managed to kind of figure out how to blend, it's a bit different and more difficult than sai, but managing to get some pretty good effects now. 

  Now I just need to figure out the tone/texture .tns files, how to make them, or where to get them, any hints?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: parfhelbelia on April 24, 2010, 01:57:48 PM
Hey, I just tried 1.3.0 moment ago and like... OMG

*edited*
Is 1.0.0 translation work with 1.3.0?
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: figue on July 23, 2011, 12:35:57 PM
If you guys can't run NekoPaint try deleting the config folder, it should run. It's always an hassle to get this program running, even with a fresh download (there's no install) from http://www2.tbb.t-com.ne.jp/neko_paint/ it won't run on my system as is.
Title: Re: 4th paint /gimp - free alternative to sai
Post by: Ishtifan on February 14, 2014, 03:43:51 PM
The link for the translated files is dead -Resurrection  please :)