Author Topic: Memory problems  (Read 62908 times)

lozetaTopic starter

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Memory problems
« on: October 04, 2008, 11:20:38 PM »
Hi, I've just purchased SAI and I'm having serious memory problems (this is strange, as before buying I had tested the program without noticing these problems, but you know... no test is as good as making a real image).

My pc has 3GB RAM.
Tipical situation: I open an image about 4200x3000 (one layer), I duplicate the layer. On the status bar, I read: "Memory load: 30% (420MB used / 1980MB reserved)". I try to flip the top layer and I get:

Not enough memory
Edit canceled

the task manager shows the same memory use (421MB). Setting a temporary folder doesn't help. That happens with both 1.0.1 and 1.0.5e.

Has anyone any advice for me? Thank you in advance.

parfhelbelia

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 04:28:36 PM »
increase your pc memory ?? =w="a

the program limit working to prevent error from overload ' _ '
but sometimes I think that limitation cause more error =A=
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My English skill is not very good - Please forgive me when I say something stupid : P

lozetaTopic starter

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 08:54:29 PM »
Hi parfhelbelia, thank you for your reply.

As I said, I already have 3GB of RAM. As you might know, on Windows every application can only use up to 2GB of RAM, so having more than 3GB can't help. Moreover, the status bar says "Memory load: 30% (420MB used / 1980MB reserved)", so the application is actually using only a part of the memory available. So, why do I get the "Not enough memory" error? It really looks like a bug...
When I get that error, SAI is the only application running, no other application is using other memory.

figue

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2008, 08:58:29 PM »
In the Options, what is the recommended size you have? SAI automatically calculates the RAM you have and auto-limits the canvas size.

lozetaTopic starter

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 10:13:36 AM »
In the Options, what is the recommended size you have? SAI automatically calculates the RAM you have and auto-limits the canvas size.

Hi figue, actually the recommended size is 5792x5792 ("estimated by total memory 2047MB" - the maximum size is set to 10000x10000). I had completely missed that information, but anyway I'm within the limits. And in fact, when the error occurs the memory load is far from the total memory reserved.
I don't know if it could help, but is it possible to limit "undo steps" or "undo memory"?
And more important, is it possible to let the developers know about these problems?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 10:15:33 AM by lozeta »

figue

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2008, 12:12:00 AM »
You can post your problem over at SAI's board, I don't know if KOJI reads his emails or not so it's best if you post it over at the board.

And no we can't change the number of undo's which seem quite high for whatever reason.

O

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 09:49:28 AM »
Well, that's a problem that was reported by me long time ago. Since I had similar problems with high resolution images - I tried this and that, and the conclusion is:
Nothing could be done at that moment. It's a problem within M$ Win 32/64 memory implementation and Sai's ram management routines. Sai cannot consume more than 2Gb of ram in theory (~1.6-1.8G in real situations). Yeah, Sai's ram handling sucks. Moreover, there's a memory leak problem - try rotating/flipping hires images and monitor sai's ram consumption. Well, it's not PS that comes with it's dedicated and highly effective memory manager that enables you to work with multilayer images 10000x10000.
So liek .... deal with it.

lozetaTopic starter

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 11:36:14 AM »
figue, O, thank you for your replies.

It's really a pity that such a nice program has those serious problems. And yes, it's not photoshop, I know. But I still think that it is a bug, not a simple matter of Windows or poor memory management, because, as I have already said, the problem occurs when there is still a lot of free memory, both the status bar and the task manager show that I'm only using 420 MB.
So I will post the problem, maybe more people complaining will push the developer to fix it...

Sorry for the silly question, but what and where is exactly SAI's board? Any address? Is it in english?
Thanks.

O

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 11:49:09 AM »
Bug? Oh yes it IS a bug and it sometimes keeps bugging me too. Yeah, in some situations you cannot rotate/flip a layer because it says smt liek "not enough memory", and that IS poor memory management. I sometiems get this kind of error when working with max possible resolution. If you get this crap of all the times - strange, try other image dimensions. Or you could use Paint.Net for image manipulation and Sai - for painting only.
English Sai's board is right here. The one on Sai's homepage is avaliable in Japanese only. Yet I have reported problems and issues with Sai to its author, using his native language. It was a long time ago but no reaction followed. Now Sai's development seems stalled - it is quite possible that the author is stuck somewhere around Hawaii, drinking soda+vodka, playing blackjack with ... ghrm... girls 24/7 and he'll be back as soon as he spends all the money Sai's already brought 'im.

lozetaTopic starter

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 08:09:58 PM »
Now Sai's development seems stalled - it is quite possible that the author is stuck somewhere around Hawaii, drinking soda+vodka, playing blackjack with ... ghrm... girls 24/7 and he'll be back as soon as he spends all the money Sai's already brought 'im.
???
However, sometimes I see a small update (version 1.0.5e is rather recent, isn't it?), this probably means that he took his laptop on that Hawaii island, and he's working a little in his spare time...  ;)

Anyway, if layer manipulation is the real problem, I will try to avoid it and simply paint. I can use the gimp for manipulation, although switching between apps is annoying.
Thank you again for your kind answers.

figue

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 02:25:47 AM »
SAI development is going downhill it seems, after the new version from the break I've found at least a new confirmed bug (I've recorded it), sometimes when I open a file with layers it doesn't display the layer stack and only shows one layer or two but after I open a new file while the old one is still open, it sort of resets and it shows the layers again. Another bug is that it occasionally slowdown the brush strokes or better yet it renders a brush stroke very slowly, it's not related with computer power since the brush is very fast apart from those random sparse delays.


I've been told that the huge break in developing was because a Japanese user that was using a cracked version sent a bug report, then another person sent the same, then another, KOJI spent a lot of time trying to figure out the problem all in vain because the problem was in the crack not in the code.

O

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 11:29:53 AM »
Sai's interface usability is what I really like. Though stability issues sometimes bug me real hard.
Check Artweaver - it's free so you can try it without any problems. (http://www.artweaver.de/index.php?en_version). Artweaver is designed to replace Painter, so you can find a lot of brushes and settings for "real-life-feel" painting and realistic brush simulation. I found Artweaver more stable then Sai (memory management is good) BUT not as convenient to use. And it's oriented for "painting", while Sai's more suitable for "drawing".

lozetaTopic starter

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 05:42:01 PM »
I've tried to avoid manipulations like flip o rotation, only painting, but after adding a couple of layers I still get the "Not enough memory" error, and sometimes also "file writing failed" (I checked the temp directory, there are many files created by SAI, all of (apparent) size = 0). So working on a image at decent resolution is quite impossible.

Figue, I don't know why KOJI slowed down SAI development, but unfortunately software are always cracked, he can't stop development just for that (in case he should make a bug reporting tool available only to registered users).

O, I know Artweaver, it's good, but I'm not very interested in natural media and the like.


figue

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 06:01:56 PM »
Try recording the program error using CamStudio then uploading it to photobucket or any other site, even if they don't understand english at least they see the bug in action.

DroopyEar

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Re: Memory problems
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 05:49:37 PM »
increase your pc memory ?? =w="a

the program limit working to prevent error from overload ' _ '
but sometimes I think that limitation cause more error =A=

The 32bits windows don't support over 3Gbyte RAM.

"640 kbyte has been enought anymore" - B. Gates